June 8, 2006
George Nemeth: Hi, this is George Nemeth of Brewed Fresh Daily and we’re here in Short North, in Columbus, Ohio and there are several bloggers here, and also the Ohio Learn and Earn Campaign. Guys, welcome. Thank you for doing Meet the Bloggers.
Ian James: Thanks for having us.
David Hopcraft: Thanks for having us.
Todd Hoffman: Thank you.
George Nemeth: Gloria?
Gloria Ferris: Okay. I’ve been told I have the first question. I’m Gloria Ferris at GloriaFerris.net, and I think I’m going to ask a question that I’ve seen on blogs and on comments of some of the things about your campaign, and there seems to be a bit of a concern of where does it tie in with the slot machine, the gambling issue, and how is it tied to that initiative in Ohio?
David Hopcraft: Learn & Earn is the program, the benefit, the public policy, and the gaming or gambling, the slot machines, pay for it. It’s a simple connection as that. So Learn & Earn is an opportunity for young people, high school students, junior high students, even elementary students to earn credits that will be in their name and translated to dollars for tuition payments to an Ohio college, public or private. The gaming or gambling, the slot machines at seven racetracks and two locations in downtown Cleveland, will be the revenue generator to pay for that fund. Very conservatively we estimate that $860,000,000 a year will come from the revenue from the gambling toward Learn & Earn. The amount that’s going to be used is actually identified as a percentage. It’s 30% of whatever is bet on the machines. So right now we’re making, estimate… We hope this summer to improve those estimates and sharpen them a bit with some professional review of it.
George Nemeth: Dave, what are the racetracks? You said there are seven. What are they? I’d ask about the casinos in Cleveland, but there aren’t any right now.
David Hopcraft: No, the racetracks are basically between Dayton and Cincinnati is one, Lebanon, and there’s River Downs in Hamilton County, I believe right across from the city lines, but not in the city. There’s Beulah Park and Scioto Raceway in Columbus. There is Thistledown in Randall.
George Nemeth: Is it Randall or Northfield?
Ian James: Northfield.
David Hopcraft: Northfield. Thistledown in Northfield in Cleveland area. Actually one of them’s a little bit in Summit County too. And in Toledo is…
George Nemeth: Toledo Raceway.
David Hopcraft: …Toledo Raceway.
George Nemeth: Okay. Thank you.
David Hopcraft: I think that covers them.
George Nemeth: Gloria?
Gloria Ferris: And my follow-up is that the petition and you’re paying the petition, a dollar a signature.
David Hopcraft: No. No. In Fact that’s a good question, Gloria, because the whole, the manner in which it is now appropriate, proper and legal to collect petitions on signatures today has changed dramatically in the last year, very dramatically, and what we have done is decided to take the highest road that the law, still uninterpreted by the courts in many instances, allows us to take. So we have hired a company that is professional management of circulation, of petition circulators.
Russell Hughlock: Who is that company?
David Hopcraft: That is Fieldworks.
Russell Hughlock: Okay.
David Hopcraft: Field Works in turn has hired as employees the people who are circulating the petitions. Those employees must be Ohio residents. So that’s a way. It is not paid… So you are paid by the hour by Field Works and not by signature.
Russell Hughlock: Okay, if I could jump in.
Gloria Ferris: Two weeks ago I was approached by a petition, petitioner or circulator, and right at the top it said that that person would be paid a dollar, was going to be paid a dollar per signature. So has this changed in the near future, or…?
Ian James: I think what you probably experienced were the people from Cincinnati who are circulating a nearly identical amendment to the Constitution, where they want to have a total of ten casinos operate in the State, and they have been, they’ve decided that rather than abide by what the Ohio Legislature passed recently, they want to go back to the old way of doing things and do it by the signature. Now we’ve chosen to far above board. There’s already been a federal court ruling on the State being able to determine whether or not people should be paid by the hour or by the signature, and I think it was the 9th District Court and the Federal District Court said states have the right to require that people are being paid by the hour. So it’s still unchartered a little bit and a little bit undetermined. It will be finalized, we believe, this summer, and as Dave was saying, we really decided to take the high road here and do it by the hour. I think, again, the people that you probably saw were the folks from Cincinnati who just filed.
George Nemeth: I’d like to jump in real quick…
Ian James: Yeah.
George Nemeth: …because I’d like some comment on the whole Gerry Austin scene that you guys were sabotaging their campaign, if you can comment on that quickly.
Ian James: Really quick, this is Ian James. My comment would be, that’s the pot calling the kettle black. For Gerry to say that is the… First of all, he’s blaming his own incompetence and his own inability to get the job done for someone else. Further, Gerry is the one who, as we saw, I was the one that signed the paperwork to ask for an investigation of this whole process, so I can tell you, I’m the one that’s helped get the whole ball rolling to find out where these guys were, what they were doing, who was doing it, and the fact of the matter is we looked at it and had a contract with an entity called Progressive Campaigns, Inc., out of California, who was going to help too, with this progress with Field Works.
Gloria Ferris: What’s it called out of California? Progressive?
Ian James: Progressive Campaigns, Inc., PCI. PCI was engaged by us. They had a contract, had a non-compete clause in it. They decided after they signed the agreement that they didn’t want to be a part of this, and we had started hearing that possibly Gerry and others from Cincinnati were engaged in trying to extricate them from this. It was also rumored that they were saying if they wanted to, they would indemnify them. So we…
Gloria Ferris: Well let me ask…
Ian James: Could I have a minute?
Gloria Ferris: Okay. Sure.
Ian James: So as this whole thing went through, we sought a TRO (Temporary Restraining Order). We were granted that. That was pushed further into the Federal Court. The Federal Court Judge (sounds like Mar-bol-dee) actually extended the TRO until the ninth of this month, because it became pretty clear that in fact, you know, when you’ve got the lawyer who’s representing the people from Cincinnati, Gerry’s own attorney, is now representing the guy that used to be our consultant, that in fact there does seem to be some sort of sabotage and Gerry’s the one that was helping sabotage it. What a hypocrite.
Gloria Ferris: Well then my question then, David, to you and Ian and Todd, does this make it doubly difficult for you to get your signatures and to get this, when there’s this muddy water being churned about with this Cincinnati initiative?
David Hopcraft: This is David Hopcraft from Learn & Earn. No, it doesn’t. It might seem so, and on the surface one would think so, but when we go in the field, the experience of the people that are working for us, when we go in the field and mention that with Learn & Earn and then give them a piece of literature or give the potential signer a piece of literature which explains it, people are eager to sign and to be involved in this campaign, and I think that it has really… While we have a good firm and we’ve got trained circulators and we’ve got good-looking literature, I think the fact of the matter is that the issue is so compelling, people are so interested in and supportive of this idea of college educations for their kids and their grandkids and their nieces and nephews paid for at the tuition level that they’re ready to sign up and they’ll sort out the details later. So we have not experienced reluctance from people to sign.
Gloria Ferris: So you’re getting the petition signers, which puts it on the ballot. Whether that turns into a vote is yet to be seen, and that’s the second part.
David Hopcraft: Well if it’s on the ballot, there’ll be a vote, but whether they are two on the ballot is in question.
Gloria Ferris: Well what I mean if it’s a yes, yeah. There may be two issues about the same thing on the ballot?
Ian James: And this is Ian James from Ohio Learn & Earn. I’ll address that. I think that what we’re going to find is that not only as Gerry’s kids in Cincinnati failed once, they failed twice, and those of you from Cleveland know that this is actually the third time that Gerry’s failed with a casino amendment, so he’s got quite a record here on this issue. The other fact is that on Friday last, they filed their third time for Cincinnati, which would be the fourth time for Gerry, to seek placement on, to allow them to be able to go circulate. Ohio, you have to go through a process before you’re actually allowed to circulate. We’ve already made it through that process and we’re continuing to circulate and gather signatures. At this point, we’re over 153,000 signatures into this process, and we have to get 322,899 signatures from 44 counties. Now in order for you to be able to do that, you a) got to be organized, and you b) got to get your certification from the Attorney General. So given those two points, I’m not sure what Gerry’s going to come up with this, but I’m sure ultimately he’ll probably blame Dave when he doesn’t make it through the Attorney General’s Office.
Tim Ferris: This is getting very interesting. This is Tim Ferris from TimFerris.blogspot.com. The young fellows, the two young fellows of high school age who did approach us up in Cleveland on West 25th Street, first of all, and again they were from Ohio Learn & Earn, and second said, “It’s no big thing. It’s just kind of like about slot machines and it won’t really hurt us, not gambling,� and also implored us to sign the petition so that they could go to college. At least they weren’t saying summer camp. So they identified themselves clearly as from Ohio Learn & Earn. Do you think you have some duplicity going on here? And those are dollar signatures.
Ian James: Yeah, I can tell you. This is Ian James again. I can tell you that, I’m not sure if you’ve seen this picture or not, but I’ve seen the picture. There’s a picture of a banner down in Cincinnati that says, “Ohio Learn & Earn,� and then it says, “Queen City Gaming Enterprises.� That’s Gerry’s client. So what they’re clearly doing is they realize that the branding that we’ve been doing on Ohio Learn & Earn that where you’re going to be able to give college opportunity to Ohio’s children, they know that’s a good thing and they’re trying to hang on to it for dear life, because that’s all they’ve got.
George Nemeth: But their initiative has absolutely nothing to do with funding college education.
Todd Hoffman: Yes, it does.
George Nemeth: It does?
Todd Hoffman: It does, in fact.
David Hopcraft: What they did is they picked (this is Dave Hopcraft from Learn & Earn) up our language, a version of our language if you will, and so they can legitimately say that they have Learn & Earn provision in their amendment, but that isn’t what it’s going to be called, and you know and I think quite frankly it’s much to do about nothing. It’s a pain in a butt to us. We’re going to run around and… In my case I’ve got to talk to media and others about and explain you know what Gerry did yesterday and who shot
Tim Ferris: Well and that’s good. Now that you are the self-proclaimed survivor, let’s not give anymore airtime to Gerry Austin.
David Hopcraft: Okay.
Tim Ferris: Who are your backers on this? Who’s paying the money to get this thing on the ballot?
David Hopcraft: The core group (this is Dave Hopcraft, Ohio Learn & Earn) are the owners of the racetracks, and the developers. Two in Cleveland: Jeff Jacobs, whose family used to own the Indians, and actually it was his dad, and the Ratner family who have been pillars of the Cleveland community, as you know from Cleveland, forever. The Ratner family owns Tower City. Jacobs has really developed the west side of the flats, which are entertainment districts in Cleveland and commercial districts. Those are our backers. Those guys have anted up for the polls. They’ve anted up for the consultant salaries. They’ve anted up to pay the cost to the circulators. We would certainly expect that once the campaign is solid in the minds of the prognosticators and the other people that want to look at it, there will be contributions from others. We imagine there are many in the entertainment industry that would benefit. The people that make slot machines would benefit. A lot of people would benefit. For example, if I don’t make this too long, but one of the huge benefits will be through the building trades members. Each of these facilities is going to have to be built, and each of these facilities is a multi-million dollar building project. So if you look, you know, again in Hamilton County, Cincinnati area, Columbus, Toledo area, Dayton and Lebanon area, Cleveland area, Toledo, what you’re going to see is some pretty dynamic entertainment complexes being built.
Tim Ferris: You know, Dave, I thought we were just… I thought the whole schtick was we were just going to go ahead and put some slot machines into existing venues.
David Hopcraft: I don’t think so. I think what, we’ve got the existing venues part is right, and I’d like to address the existing venues, but I’ll finish with the building part. At those sites where the existing venues are, there are going to be substantial, mammoth, multi-million dollar entertainment complexes built: hotel, restaurant, all the things that you see in a high entertainment venue. Now…
Tim Ferris: That based on slots?
David Hopcraft: Based on slots.
Tim Ferris: So that would generate the building of a hotel?
David Hopcraft: Yes. Yes, clearly will. Now as to the locations and the venues, one of the things we did with Ohio Learn & Earn, and I, as a matter of fact, am assigned Director on the committee, so I can say “we� justifiably. One of the things we did was restricted as much as possible where the gambling’s going to take place, and we restricted it to areas where there is gambling now and has been for tens of, scores of years, the racetracks. People have been going in and wagering at the racetracks for an awfully long time in Ohio. We restricted it to there. We restricted it to slot machines, and not table games, not casinos; slot machines. So the only exception in our amendment are two locations in downtown Cleveland, which are longstanding entertainment commercial districts, and that’s because…
Tim Ferris: What are those?
David Hopcraft: That’s Tower City and the west bank of the Flats.
Tim Ferris: Okay.
David Hopcraft: …and that’s because the City fathers in Cleveland, the business community, which has endorsed us wholeheartedly, the political community, which endorses wholeheartedly, said “We want table games here as part of our Cleveland entertainment destination city, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, new stadiums. We want to have the table games as a potential part of that entertainment mix.� We said, “Okay, you can have it, but only in Cleveland and only with a vote of the people four years from now.� So we really restricted it, Tim, and that was our goal.
Tim Ferris: Okay, then even with the given restrictions, 3 billion in grace revenues is what you’re targeting right off the go?
David Hopcraft: I think that the gross revenues will probably over 2 billion, according to our estimates, but less than three.
Tim Ferris: And 30% going to the schools then.
David Hopcraft: Thirty percent (30%) will go to… No, they won’t go to the schools. It’ll never go to the schools. It’ll go to the kids. The kids will actually have their name in an account at the Board of Regents from which their money will be deposited in their name and from which they can draw. Excuse me, go ahead.
Russell Hughlock: My question, out of the 100% pie…
David Hopcraft: Yes.
Russell Hughlock: …and we have 30% that goes to the kids…
David Hopcraft: Yes.
Russell Hughlock: …and I believe you got 1% goes to gambling addiction treatment.
David Hopcraft: Yes.
Russell Hughlock: What’s the break up of the rest in taxes and profits? How does all that break out?
David Hopcraft: How it breaks out very simply…
Russell Hughlock: I’m sorry, that was Russell Hughlock from the Buckeye State Blog.
David Hopcraft: This is David Hopcraft, Ohio Learn & Earn. How it breaks out very simply is just under 47% will go to public purpose. That is, 30% to Learn & Earn. We’ll have money in there. We have money in there for every county in the form of local government funds for economic development and capital improvement, every county in the State, all 88, whether you have a slot machine in the county or you don’t. Most won’t. We also have money in there for purses for the horseracing, and we have money in there for addiction in gambling, and we have added, there’s added money of this, about 47, 46% I’m talking about, which will go to the what we call impacted counties. So for example, if you’re the Cuyahoga County, you’ll get more than the county’s, say Sandusky County, which doesn’t have any slot machine in it. And that is, as I say, about 40%, a little less, just a little less than half (47%) of the take, the total take. The remainder, the other half, a little more than a half, will go to the developers and they will use that money to build the facilities, operate the facilities, you know, buy all the things that they have to buy to operate the facilities and employ the people that they have to employ. So that’s the breakdown as the way it goes.
Russell Hughlock: So the operators get about 53%.
David Hopcraft: Close to 53%.
Russell Hughlock: Are there any taxes involved?
David Hopcraft: Well the taxes are the 47% that are coming off the top.
Russell Hughlock: Okay, and how much of that 53% is going to be me going in there and striking it big?
David Hopcraft: Oh well you know the payoff on the machines will be whatever the, you know, sort of the industry average, I would guess. I can tell you this, that the average we’re guessing that would be wagered on a machine in a day is $250, just to have some basis to average it, and that’s how we’re coming up with these numbers that I earlier replied to Tim about, but in order for your son, daughter or you to get that scholarship or that tuition grant, you never have to put a quarter in the machine. You never have to go into one.
Russell Hughlock: When we get that $250 out of machine, if I go into a…
David Hopcraft: Right, and then maybe you get a million dollars…
Russell Hughlock: …racetrack and…
David Hopcraft: …since you put in the first quarter.
Russell Hughlock: …I put my $250 in, I mean hopefully I’m going to get some out.
_: Right.
David Hopcraft: We would hope so.
Russell Hughlock: I mean because, I mean the payout’s usually what, 80-some percent?
David Hopcraft: And that I don’t know. That’s a gambling industry thing that’s way over my head.
Russell Hughlock: Okay. So my question is, the number I’ve seen, which is the $250 per machine, is that the $250 profit from each machine?
Ian James: Yeah, because that’s, it’s not just the matter… That, you actually have to, is a drop . You have to put in more than $250.
Russell Hughlock: Right.
Ian James: The $250 is what is the daily average hold per hand.
Russell Hughlock: Right.
Ian James: That’s what stays in the machine, so that is the profits. You actually do have to gamble more than that to reach that point.
Russell Hughlock: Right. Right. Okay, that’s what I was trying to get at.
Ian James: Yeah.
Russell Hughlock: Now the question I was going to ask, this is a constitutional amendment?
Ian James: Um hmm.
David Hopcraft: Yes.
Russell Hughlock: Is this something that’s appropriate for a Constitution? When I think of a Constitution, it’s to preserve and protect rights, to provide checks and balances, and predominantly to, you know, protect the people from an overbearing government. Is specific language to say, “We’re to have these racetracks and these racetracks and these downtown developments, and we’re going to have slot machines and gambling and shows and all this good stuff� and is that appropriate for the Constitution?
David Hopcraft: Well I’d like to respond to that. This is Dave Hopcraft from Ohio Learn & Earn. First of all, it’s in the Constitution that we can’t have gambling, so in order to have the gambling that funds the Learn & Earn we’ve got to change the gambling.
Russell Hughlock: So why not just repeal that? Why not just run a campaign repeal?
David Hopcraft: Well because then you’ve got no guarantee to the public of what the revenues are going to be used for, and we want the public to have a guarantee, flat, hard, granite guarantee of what that money’s going to go for, because in the past we’ve seen one was the lottery. That was going to pay for education. Well it didn’t, and it’s been diverted in some instances by the Legislature.
Russell Hughlock: Right.
David Hopcraft: The second thing was the tobacco settlement. We had a tobacco settlement, multi-million dollars. That was going to go for health treatment and the reduction of Medicaid costs and all that that it was going to go for. Well guess what? It hasn’t. It’s gone for other balancing the budget tricks of the Legislature. So we wanted that, the guarantee in the Constitution. That’s part of the answer. The other part of the answer is, “Well why do you put in specific addresses?� We put in specific addresses so the people would know how restricted the gambling is, that we have limited it to these areas. For example, a racetrack will not have an off-track betting site with slot machines in it in your neighborhood. That can’t happen, won’t happen, because it’s in the Constitution. So as a constitutional purist, I think you’re absolutely right. As a guy that has observed practical politics that is played in Columbus for the last 30 years, I think we needed the provisions in there, the protective order, and to guarantee the use of the money for what we’ve said it would.
George Nemeth: Dave, can we jump into that a little bit?
David Hopcraft: Yeah.
George Nemeth: …because before we started recording, you know, I think it was Tim who asked you about how long you were here and what your experience was. So could you give us like a minute or two of your bio again?
David Hopcraft: Yeah. My bio is, I worked for newspapers in Columbus and went to Ohio State University, worked for newspapers in Columbus, Dayton, and then for the Columbus bureau of the Plain Dealer in Cleveland. I went up to Cleveland and I went through a bunch of Chairs and became Executive Editor of the Plain Dealer. My mother used to drop me off from work, and that was because I didn’t have a driver’s license yet, and then I left the Plain Dealer and started my own public relations firm in Ohio and worked in that for, maybe it was about let’s see 10, 15 years. One of my clients had been Art Modell. He moved the team.
Russell Hughlock: That’s a tough PR job break.
David Hopcraft: That was a tough PR job. I went to Baltimore to help him get the team established, which he did successfully. Cleveland got its team back and its new stadium, which you couldn’t get under Art. And then when that job was done and I was done in Baltimore, I came back to Ohio because I’m an Ohio boy and that’s where I wanted, frankly, my grandkids to be raised.
Gloria Ferris: David, let’s talk about that a little bit. You said that Art couldn’t get the new stadium and couldn’t get anywhere with that in Cleveland. Any thoughts on that, Dave?
David Hopcraft: I have a lot of thoughts, but this isn’t the place for them, and I’m not going to say.
Everyone:
Gloria Ferris: You know what I’m talking about.
David Hopcraft: They’ll be in my book.
Gloria Ferris: They’ll be in, okay. You’re writing a book.
Ian James: I’ll just say Dave looks pretty good for 45, doesn’t he?
David Hopcraft:
Gloria Ferris: Are you writing a book, or are you going to write a book?
David Hopcraft: When I take a shower, I’ve got the first chapter down pretty good .
Gloria Ferris: Oh, okay .
Tim Ferris: Dave, did you finish up on your bio okay?
David Hopcraft: I did.
Tim Ferris: Okay.
David Hopcraft: I’m done with talking about me.
Tim Ferris: We took you to the current day. This is Tim Ferris again. I was wondering, okay now there’s going to be $860,000,000 coming in for the benefit of certain particular kids. A couple of things. How is the money going to be trusteed and what does a kid have to do to go and qualify?
David Hopcraft: Good question, Tim. This is Dave Hopcraft from Ohio Learn & Earn. The money is by constitutional amendment to the earlier question, directed to the care of the Ohio Board of Regents, which is the super body that is over all of the universities in Ohio, all the public universities, and they must manage and care for that money and assure its availability. The actual credits then are earned by all students who are in Ohio public or parochial or private schools, as long as they’re non-profit schools in Ohio, and as those students work their way through school, from kindergarten to 12th grade, they will earn credits. For example, they will earn credits for perfect attendance. They will earn credits for passing certain tests. For example, if you’re taking a statewide test in the 3rd grade these days. All those 3rd graders who pass that test and complete it successfully will earn credits. Those credits will be, if you will, banked at the Ohio Board of Regents in that child’s name. When the child has gone and completed his education all the way through 12, he’s passed the 9th grade test, he’s passed the 10th grade test, passed the graduation test, has done his community service hours as is required by the Ohio School Board, passed his core English, passed his core math, all that, he will have credits or she will have credits in their name at the Board of Regents. They will then tell the Board of Regents, “Okay I have 20 credits, and of the 20 credits, that gets me $6,000 toward my tuition at an Ohio public or private college,� and on the other hand, may have 26 credits, because he was a better student, attended school better, more regularly.
Russell Hughlock: Is that true?
George Nemeth: Probably not.
Gerry Zanik: I may have at OU.
George Nemeth: I was just an average student here.
Gerry Zanik: I went through Ohio Learn & Earn.
David Hopcraft: He may have the highest amount that can be banked or points scored, which would be 26.
Russell Hughlock: So what would happen to somebody who moved into the state, or parents moved into the state, and they were like 14, 15 years old?
David Hopcraft: They would start earning from the grade they were in and work their way up. So that for example, if you came in in the 8th grade, you still have four years to earn credits and get a portion of the amount of money for your college tuition grant aid. And it’s very important.
Russell Hughlock: And that money has to stay in the State? They have to go to a school in this state?
David Hopcraft: They have to go to an Ohio public or private college, yes.
Russell Hughlock: Okay.
George Nemeth: Has anybody given thought to that attraction part of it? You know, is this being positioned as attractive to people who don’t live in Ohio to come to the state once this gets set up?
David Hopcraft: I think it will be, just like many people of my generation moved to California, established residency and went to school free in California. I think in addition to that, what it will over time provide is a highly educated workforce, and that makes, that’s what businesses are looking for today in the information age. They’re looking for pockets of populations that are trainable, that have a good education base, that can learn new technologies, that can help invent new technologies. That’s what’s so exciting about it. We want to just sort of blast Ohio into the future. The way we’re doing it with a tax raise here and a tax cut there, and maybe some more schools here and maybe not some more schools over here, and gee, are the schools constitutional or aren’t they constitutional, and what kind of curriculum should we have in schools, that isn’t getting it done for Ohio. Ohio needs a dramatic change, and this provides it. That’s why we think it’s .
Ian James: If I can add one other thing. This is Ian James from Ohio Learn & Earn. The other part of that I think is that when you look at what’s going on in Kalamazoo, Michigan, as Kalamazoo promised right now where they actually provide a college scholarship to people that live there, what they’re finding is people are moving there because there’s an opportunity for their child to get into a college, to have that opportunity to get a college degree, and that also has some other aspects of it that I think we’re going to find here as well. One of those is that you’re going to have a drop in the dropout rate. When you give a child an opportunity to succeed and you give a child an opportunity to get a degree and better themselves, you’re going to see a dramatic reduction in dropout rates. You’re going to see a dramatic reduction in the problem kids acting up in class, and that’s been shown in Kalamazoo. And last year they had 276 people, kids, dropped out of high school. This year they’ve had 27. Now those are some pretty stunning facts. So if we start seeing that in Ohio and we start seeing kids stop acting up in class because they do have an opportunity, I mean let’s face facts. The people that act up in class and start to be disruptive are generally the kids that see that they have no future, that they’re life is going to be what it is.
Russell Hughlock: They doesn’t want to be bloggers when they grow up.
Ian James: Oh well perhaps so.
George Nemeth: If they’re not already.
Russell Hughlock: Right.
Ian James: If they’re not already. But we do have, as Dave said, a chance to fundamentally change the way Ohio’s going to go in the future. We can either stick our heads in the sand and pretend like billions of dollars leaving the State is not a big deal, or we can actually take the bull by the horns and say, “Look, we’re going to keep our money here. We’re going to stop paving Indiana’s roads, and we’re going to do something for our children’s future.�
Gloria Ferris: What did you say about paving? What did you say?
Ian James: Paving Indiana’s roads. Right now we’ve got billions of dollars leaving the State and it goes to Indiana, goes to West Virginia, it goes to Michigan. That’s where the gambling is right now. They have casinos, they have slots, and Pennsylvania’s next in line to have that. We are sending billions of dollars out of state and we can start to turn that money back to Ohio.
David Hopcraft: What really upsets me (this is Dave Hopcraft and this will be very quick) when our brightest students leave the State of Ohio to go to the University of Indiana or Michigan because they’ve got a better college program, and the reason they’ve got a better college program is our people are going over there and spending money on their gambling machines. Why don’t we keep our kids here and make Ohio better?
Russell Hughlock: So my question is, by having this constitutionally guaranteed revenue strain towards colleges, and I think if we look at Ohio higher education right now, it’s a mess and it’s very expensive, aren’t we taking political pressure off our elected representatives to further reform it, and aren’t we constitutionally giving them that permanent relief from fixing it?
David Hopcraft: No, and I’ll tell you (this is Dave Hopcraft and I’ve got a simple and quick answer). No, we’re not taking the pressure off them. In fact, we’re keeping the pressure on them, because this constitutional amendment, which you and I discussed the value of it being in the Constitution, says actually that this money that is given to the Board of Regents from the gambling proceeds must supplement, cannot supplant what the Legislature in the State of Ohio is already paying for education. So the Legislature doesn’t get its hands on the money, doesn’t get credit for the money, can’t shift the money around, can’t touch it, and that’s important.
Gloria Ferris: Not like the lottery.
David Hopcraft: Not like the lottery or the GEMACO funds.
Russell Hughlock: Well why can’t they just cut the Education budget with things like a TEL Amendment? Why couldn’t they just…? I mean if Ken Blackwell would have pushed his TEL Amendment, it would have lead to educational funding cuts, would have been more of the prime places it would have come to, ‘cause that’s 50% of the budget. So if in the future they find out that the Legislative TEL they passed is toothless and they pass a constitutional TEL that’s going to take money away, I mean aren’t we really just swapping money around then?
David Hopcraft: Well I will say this, this constitutional amendment guarantees college tuition money for students. It does not guarantee five air programs. It does not guarantee professors salaries. It does not guarantee statue building or stadium building. It guarantees money to kids for college. The Legislature cannot undermine that constitutionally. It will not solve all the problems of Ohio…
Ian James: Right.
David Hopcraft: …but it will do is give Ohio a base of keeping our kids at home, giving them the possibility of a strong economy when they get out of college, and allowing them to contribute to that economy. That’s what we’re out to do and that’s what we’re going to do.
Tim Ferris: You know Dave (this is Tim Ferris again)… Did I interrupt, Russell?
Russell Hughlock: I was just going to, I just had one last question really. We were talking about the cause and effect kind of thing. We’re talking about a lot of money. What’s to stop the universities in Ohio saying, “Hey, we’ve got this guaranteed pot of money now and nobody can touch it, so we’re all going to twice as much�?
David Hopcraft: Well you know I’ll tell you what’s going to stop them, because if they try that at say the State universities, okay, then the students are going to go to the private universities, and they’re going to be looking for students, because they’re going to have a real problem there. The Legislature’s going to say to them, “Well your student population is dropping. Why are we giving you so much money?�
Russell Hughlock: Well why wouldn’t the private universities just jack up the tuition on their salaries and their perks and their fancier fields and things?
David Hopcraft: Well you know I don’t choose to view the world as one place, and universities included, that are only in it for greed. I think that they feel they have an educational mission. I think they try and live up to that, and I think what they will see is an opportunity to keep Ohio students in Ohio, contributing to Ohio, and participating in the future life of that university. You know I graduated from Ohio State a long time ago and I still contribute to the school. I’m active in Alumni Association. I suppose that’s either good or bad, but it wouldn’t be true if I didn’t.
George Nemeth: Right.
Ian James: One other thing about that (this is Ian from Ohio Learn & Earn) is that the constitutional amendment also guarantees an average, that you will pay an average annual tuition. So if under that scenario, University X raises their tuition exponentially, it’s going to affect the average, but you know it’s still going to, to what Dave was saying, was going to come across the line for everybody else. So that will still meet the average.
Russell Hughlock: I think that you kind rolled into my first question about why the Constitution, because you know as you mentioned earlier there’s an amendment in there now that bans gambling. You know some of us, I can look at that thing, I thought, I don’t think you should do that. You know I think it’s a legislative issue and a community by community issue, and when you’re talking about large sums of money like this is, and it can have unexpected distortions because of the large amounts of money, and yet you’ve frozen it in a Constitution where you can’t change it if you have to if you find out “Oh, we didn’t expect that.� You know, I was wondering what do you think about that?
David Hopcraft: David Hopcraft from Learn & Earn. It is, you know, at best a human effort, so it’s going to have flaws. We had what we believe to be some of the Ohio Constitutional lawyers in the State develop this. We had, and if you’ve ever seen a roomful of attorneys arguing over what this clause really says, it really, they did a very thorough and good job and well-intended job to do exactly what we asked them to do. We think they did that. Russell, I cannot certainly argue with you and say there are not some unintended consequence in there somewhere. That’s just a reasonable thing from our past to know, but our effort is to identify the source of the money and to identify to whom that money goes and we think we’ve done that.
George Nemeth: Dave, can I ask a question? You mentioned the Ohio Board of Regents.
David Hopcraft: Yes.
George Nemeth: Can you expand on their role in all this? You know, like what they’re going to be doing, and I’d also like to hear what some of their opinions are about that.
David Hopcraft: This is Dave Hopcraft from Ohio Learn & Earn. I will say that the Ohio Board of Regents will act under this amendment as the stewards of the money. They will not set the requirements for who gets what.
Tim Ferris: Are we the taxpayers or guarantors? If there is a shortfall, will it come from the General Fund?
David Hopcraft: No. No. Russ, that will not happen.
Tim Ferris: Tim.
David Hopcraft: Tim, I’m sorry.
Tim Ferris: Okay.
David Hopcraft: I’m sorry.
George Nemeth: The other’s Russ.
David Hopcraft: Okay. Sorry.
Tim Ferris: Who guarantees this? How is it guaranteed?
David Hopcraft: It is guaranteed by the Constitution that 30% of the revenues, the handle as Ian described it from the slot machines goes to this fund. That is the guarantee.
Tim Ferris: Okay, and then once the fund is there, then what happens? How’s it managed?
David Hopcraft: The Ohio Board of Regents as the stewards or manager of the fund to protect it and make investments where necessary and prudent and to account for the orderly transfer of money that’s coming to each student to the institution that that student has identified as the college he will go to.
Tim Ferris: And is each credit a child earns worth a dollar amount adjusted for inflation, or is it worth a period of time at an institution?
David Hopcraft: It is good to the student. The student has access to it for 20 years to use it for retraining or whatever, for undergraduate or Associate Degrees, so that it’s two-year colleges or four-year colleges, not for graduate degrees. You don’t go to law school on it.
Tim Ferris: Okay.
David Hopcraft: It is established that it will be the average of the tuition of the Ohio public universities and the amount that each credit is worth will be established in the creation of the Learn & Earn fund.
Tim Ferris: Like the 529 Plan, is it transferable if in fact the child would not want to go to school?
David Hopcraft: No. It sits there.
Tim Ferris: Okay, so it’s a credit then. Who actually controls? If a child will die, what happens to the credit?
David Hopcraft: It stays there.
Tim Ferris: Okay. Would it go to a brother or sister?
David Hopcraft: No.
Tim Ferris: There’s been no thought of that?
David Hopcraft: There’s no intention of that.
Tim Ferris: Okay. And it’s essentially the child earns independent of parents, a child earns independent of family, a child earns through the school system.
David Hopcraft: Correct. The child must, the student must earn this.
Russell Hughlock: So where does stranded credits go, I mean with people who decide, you know, “I’ve got all these credits, but I’m going to the Army and go to West Point�?
David Hopcraft: Well that’s absolutely wonderful, and the fact of the matter is that money stays in the pool and can be invested and can grow that fund so that as you go along in the years, the trust fund from which these future children are going to draw their credits is in fact very sound.
Tim Ferris: Okay, then we’ll call it a reversion then. What do you count on percentage wise for reversions?
David Hopcraft: Don’t have that number.
Tim Ferris: Okay, it’ll be interesting to find out what the actuary saved, the reversionary amounts are going to be as an appointive. I have one overweening concern here, and that’s how money flows and how money comes to rest in certain places and generates wealth in a state or in a city, and outside studies, Ed Morrison did one of them, have shown that be viable, gambling concerns, such as slots, must draw 60% of the income from the non-indigenous population. That is, it must come from the outside. Now if we’re around by West Virginia and Indiana and where Pennsylvania’s going through this too and we have Detroit-Windsor, it seems like not a whole lot of money is going to travel… People are going into the state to go ahead and at least play the slots. They make them for the horses. That’s one thing. The second thing is, gambling takes off a discretionary dollar. The discretionary dollar is also what local businesses get. Local businesses, such as bars, restaurants, the locally owned mom and pop things, and also local chain things get the discretionary dollar. If in fact gambling is attractive and does take the discretionary dollar, aren’t we just switching pockets? That’s not new money the way I’m thinking. And if we’re not bringing in new money from the outside, and if we’re just trading pockets, we’re essentially putting small businesses out of business and we’re transferring to Jacobs, Ratner and seven racetracks. How do you go about that?
David Hopcraft: This is Dave Hopcraft from Ohio Learn & Earn. It’s a good question and a complicated question. I’ll try and abbreviate my answer, so if I’ve left some response out, please just come right back at me with it.
George Nemeth:
Everyone:
Russell Hughlock: Well that’s the best question I’ve heard him ask actually in all of my .
Ian James: That’s a very good question.
Tim Ferris: Well thank you, Ian.
Ian James: That’s an excellent question.
Tim Ferris: He gets to see that the bloggers are a society.
David Hopcraft: I can see that. Can I join? I see that…
Tim Ferris: Yes you may.
David Hopcraft: Okay. The fact of the matter is, certainly the entertainment dollar is discretionary. These slot parlors at the tracks and the two in downtown Cleveland are going to have to compete for a discretionary entertainment dollar. I know that the business community and the political community in Cleveland believe, and have believed for some time, that gambling in that city will help it as it tries to draw regional visitors, conventions and visitors. They don’t expect somebody to fly from California from Cleveland to play the slot machines, but they do expect that maybe they can get a convention, midwestern convention there because they offer so many things, including gambling and slot machines.
Tim Ferris: Something they don’t already have.
David Hopcraft: Right.
Tim Ferris: Okay.
David Hopcraft: Right. And I think that that’s, you know, a reasonable expectation. So then I think that beyond that, traveling tourism in Ohio, we have a lot of people or come into Ohio. Very interestingly the statistics, and I’m not as versed on them as I should be to use this as an answer, but I do know that one of the things about Ohio is that people are coming through it. So they’re coming from the east to go to the west. They’re driving or they’re coming from wherever. To get them to stop, to get them to participate in Ohio, this is again part of the mix. So we’d like to capture some of the tourists that are in Ohio now for other reasons. Thirdly, we live in a competitive society. People have to compete. I don’t see that somebody, I don’t see the vast number of small bars and restaurants (like this one) going out of business because 15 miles down the road there’s a gambling emporium. I think that what happens in some of those statistics that you read are these economists that are looking at models and not people that are looking at communities. For example, if you go to the Cleveland area, you’ve got Jacobs Field and Gund Arena and a pretty healthy mix of entertainment and restaurants and the like in that area. I would think they would be enhanced by something at Tower City not denied. Maybe some of the better ones would be really well enhanced and maybe some of the weaker ones wouldn’t. I cannot argue that. Finally, you know, we’re endorsed by, I believe, Tim, we’re endorsed by the Ohio Beverage License Association, and these are the very small businessmen and license holders that are running these small restaurants and bars. They’ve already said they think it’s a good idea. That was my first whack at that, Tim.
Russell Hughlock: I just want to go back to one question.
Ian James: If I could just add one other thing. This is Ian James from Ohio Learn & Earn. Dave was right. The Ohio License Beverage Association has endorsed this, as well as the Ohio Convention Visitors Bureau has jumped on board on this as well, and lastly, just to try to give the layman-ly, as I am an Appalachian, okay, make it simple, is that when you’ve got 2 billion dollars leaving the State, discretionary spending, and we’ve got to figure out a way that we can keep some of that money here. May not be 100% of it, but it’s something and, again, 2 billion dollars going to pave Hoosier roads or…
David Hopcraft: (sounds like her-res-gay) kids.
Ian James: …or (sounds like her-res-gay) kids is where we’re at.
Gloria Ferris: What studies, Ian? What studies are you using for that 2 billion dollar figure?
Ian James: Since 1996, I worked on the casino campaign in ’96, and we actually had studies from Deloitte & Touche and as well as just a number of other… There have been a number of other studies that have gone on throughout time, and you’ve seen, if you go to Indiana’s Rising Sun or Lawrenceburg or any of those casinos, look the license plates there. You will see that 80% of them are from Ohio. They are seeing the benefit in those states. The Deloitte & Touche studies back in ’96 were showing that this was going to happen. I think the reason that it didn’t pass in ’96 when it was a complete different issue of course and it was I think ahead of its time, because at the time the states around us were just in their . Michigan had casinos, but they were at Indian reservations. They were farther up, Upstate Michigan. Indiana was just coming on line; people really didn’t take it very seriously, and these other states, like West Virginia, really weren’t on line. But as that all, over the last 10 years, we’ve seen the growth of the industry. We’ve seen that people continue to take their money out of state. So there are actually Christensen. I think it’s Christiansen Financial…
David Hopcraft: Yes.
Ian James: …has done studies on this. They’ve shown that about approximately 2 billion dollars leave the State.
Tim Ferris: Or Christensen.
Ian James: They are industry analysts, financial analysts, and they have looked at this.
David Hopcraft: Mainly industry financial.
Ian James: Industry financial analysts.
Gloria Ferris: But they’re gaming industry, right?
Ian James: Right.
David Hopcraft: We don’t know that. Probably New York City, but don’t know that.
Ian James: Yeah, I would agree. I think it’s a 202 number.
George Nemeth: I’d like to follow that up a little bit, though, because I mean what are the trends you know? And this question is kind of loosely based on a question that Chas Rich sent me, and I think we addressed the first part of this question you know saying, “As cost of delivering education goes up, how is the fund dealing with that?� I think you handled that well. But then the second part is, you know we’ve got all these other states around us that already have fairly established gaming industries, right, and the rich tend to get richer. Detroit-Windsor is not going to stop investing their casinos and marketing and advertising, so are we going to be able to catch up?
David Hopcraft: This is David Hopcraft from Ohio Learn & Earn. We’ll have the newest places. We’ll be the newest thing on the map. We will be close and convenient for people who don’t want to take a day trip to spend a couple hours at a machine or who might want to go and see, have a dinner, see a show and maybe do some gambling. Those folks would be, and I think there are many, many of those. I would not get on a bus and ride to West Virginia to spend a day at the racetrack and slot machine, but I might go 20, 15 miles down the road with my wife, have dinner, maybe see a show, play machines for a little bit, whatever…
George Nemeth: That would be Scioto Downs?
David Hopcraft: Yes. So you know I mean I think that there’s a pocket of people who aren’t getting on the buses to go out of state, and they’re going to be intrigued and interested, and then if the quality of the product there, including the return on your bets, you’ll go back.
Russell Hughlock: I’d just like to go back and maybe close off with what I thought was a little bit of a loose end before I ask what I think will be my final question. The Board of Regents (as is from my ignorance question), do they currently handle large sums of money, or is this going to be a new function for those people?
David Hopcraft: No, it’s not a new function. In fact they today have a 150 million dollar fund annually which they use for scholarships or grant and aids for, they call a means tested, and that means for disadvantaged people. It will be substantially more dollars, but they also are the arbiters or advisors to the governor on legislature on all the State university budgets. So they live in a world where there are a lot of zeros after the numbers.
Russell Hughlock: I mean ‘cause the thing that strikes, the thing that makes me worry about, Tom Noyes…
David Hopcraft: Yeah.
Russell Hughlock: …saddled the four regents and we had the whole Bureau of Workers Comp…
David Hopcraft: Yes.
Russell Hughlock: …which is a lot of money, and they lost a lot of money…
David Hopcraft: Yes.
Russell Hughlock: …is there anything other than just people doing the right thing that…?
David Hopcraft: That protects us here?
Russell Hughlock: Yeah, and I don’t want to find out that it’s all be siphoned away and invested in beanie babies and my kids can’t go to school.
David Hopcraft: Well you know I mean I think that it’s up to people like you folks that I’m sitting here talking to, some pretty sophisticated questions from Ohioans. I mean you watch your government. If your government is dishonest, you do something about it. But clearly the laws are in place that they can’t do that, and if they do it they go to jail. That doesn’t stop some crazy people from doing it, but they don’t get at it very long, and the Ohio Bureau of Workers’ Compensation, while it was embarrassed and lost some money, is still a very strong insurance fund. So the ability of any one person or group to strip this fund out is almost nil, and if there are bad people in it, then we’ve got find them and throw them in jail where they belong.
Gloria Ferris: Is that your question, Russell?
Russell Hughlock: Yeah, I feel.
Tim Ferris: The Ohio Commission Trust Authority, is the Board of Regents involved in that also?
George Nemeth: I think we need to schedule some interviews with the Ohio Board of Regents.
Gloria Ferris: Maybe we should.
Tim Ferris: Okay.
George Nemeth: Someone needs to follow-up.
Gloria Ferris: Yeah, someone.
Tim Ferris: You know, but I was just wondering is the same Board of Regents also involved with the Ohio Tuition Trust Authority, ‘cause I noticed that you mention that on the website.
David Hopcraft: I don’t know.
Tim Ferris: Okay…
David Hopcraft: I cannot answer that.
Tim Ferris: …because they have just recently shut that down. They don’t want to make the promise, the people who have invested the money.
Ian James: Yeah, I think that was also because of the lack of funding…
Gloria Ferris: Yes.
Ian James: …because the Learn & Earn concept really was the Board of Regents concept…
Tim Ferris: Okay.
Ian James: …and the Board of Regents ran with that and under a legislative measure tried to get it through the Legislature to get it funded. It made it through the Senate, but did not make it through the House and it failed, and one of the reasons it failed was they didn’t know how to fund it. How do you fund this? Where does the money come from? How do you get kids a college scholarship? Now theirs was a little bit different.
David Hopcraft: Yeah, it was quite different, and it was means tested.
Ian James: Right, it was means tested, but ours, like I like to say is mother-approved, and so I think you’re going to find in talking to them what we found is that they are excited about this, that any time they’re able to find another opportunity for a child to go to college, they want to help that kid go. The tuition, the OTA, was a matter of not having the money. This time they will have the money for this.
David Hopcraft: You know, interestingly, at a meeting that I had, I don’t know if Ian was there or not, but in a meeting I had (this is Dave Hopcraft with Ohio Learn & Earn) with some of the officials from the Ohio Board of Regents, one of the scholars that sits in their programming said to me, “Do you know that by the age of 3rd or 4th grade, students are already opting out of college?� They’re already making that decision. He said that something that incenses them to be excited so that they can see that they can in fact go to college, he said, is going to be a dramatic change in the State of Ohio. By the way, that 3rd or 4th grade student that’s opting out of college in Ohio, in Indiana is staying in school and opting into college. Very interesting.
Gloria Ferris: Russell remembered his question.
Russell Hughlock: My last question. Since I write a political blog…
David Hopcraft: How many last questions do you get Russell?
Everyone:
Russell Hughlock: This is my last question. I promise. Since I write a political blog, I’m going to interject a little bit of politics. The Governor’s race, Ken Blackwell doesn’t like gambling as much as he likes the shares in gambling. Ted Strickland has kind of vacillated a little bit, and you know he’s kind of sort of anti-gambling. Do you think your campaign’s going to get interjected into the Governor’s race and you’re going to be a bit of a football?
David Hopcraft: This is David Hopcraft, Ohio Learn & Earn. I’d like to take a swipe at that, and anybody else who wants to contribute, but the fact of the matter is, this idea is so compelling and so ripe that the politicians can endorse us or not endorse us, I really don’t care. This is going to be, if we do our job of properly explaining it through forums like this and many other ways to the people of Ohio, I would pity the politician that tries to stand between the college education of the kids and working families in this state and somebody’s vote for Governor. I don’t think it’ll work, and I think they’ll be making a political mistake. I could be wrong, but I think that’s right.
Gloria Ferris: I have a question about your website. I’ve got a lot of information of how the 30% of revenues works. Where would I have found that on the website and how it ties in to the gaming part of it? I couldn’t find that, and is that just because it was me, or is it not there yet?
David Hopcraft: Well I think it’s (this is Dave Hopcraft, Ohio Learn & Earn) our people with developing the website have done a wonderful job with what they’ve had. They need more information in a form that they can use it. We’re working on getting that, and certainly before the summer and much before the traditional Labor Day start of the campaign, we’ll have the sophisticated information linked up there, so that people that want the detailed information will be able to find it.
Gloria Ferris: I think on this topic you’re going to need that…
David Hopcraft: I think you’re right.
Gloria Ferris: …’cause, yeah, I really do, because I mean there’s a lot of huge dollars that are being out, and then that’s my second part of this question. You’re talking about 30% of the gaming revenues. Is that net after expenses?
David Hopcraft: That’s gross.
Gloria Ferris: Or is it gross?
David Hopcraft: Gross.
Ian James: It’s gross.
Gloria Ferris: Because I think that is another huge thing as to how much will be going back into this fund for these kids.
David Hopcraft: It’s gross revenue.
Gloria Ferris: And you’ve never said that. You have never said that. You say revenues and…
David Hopcraft: But I don’t say net or gross.
Gloria Ferris: …you don’t say net or gross.
David Hopcraft: Okay.
Gloria Ferris: And just a point of information…
David Hopcraft: Good points.
Gloria Ferris: …because to me that makes a big difference as to how much money we’re talking about.
David Hopcraft: Sure it does.
Gloria Ferris: And I think that probably leads into your next question.
Tim Ferris: Well more or less. You know…
Gloria Ferris: Todd was going to say something.
Tim Ferris: Oh Todd, please.
Todd Hoffman: Hi, Todd Hoffman with Learn & Earn. I’d just go back to your website question. Of course we are adding stuff daily to that information. The amendment is online. You can read the amendment, so that’s very accessible. And we also have our blog there, and the reason why we created that blog is for people to come and ask me questions, you know, what more do you want to know? What detailed information can I get you that we might not have thought of or we haven’t put up on the website yet?
Russell Hughlock: That’s very good. You know I think every time casinos get mentioned at my blog, it’s like 100 comments…
Todd Hoffman: Yeah.
Russell Hughlock: …and you know some have a visceral reaction, some have lots of questions, you know, and I think it has been useful to get those answers and to be able to point to information and things, so yeah, I hope you do come to do that.
Gloria Ferris: Ian?
Ian James: If I can add one other thing here (this is Ian James from Ohio Learn & Earn) is Todd and Dave and I were talking about it, ‘cause every week we have a communication meeting to kind of set the schedule and work things through. Yeah, we’re going to strive to over-communicate rather than under-communicate, and we’re really going to strive in this campaign to be a leader for communications in all the statewide campaigns, gubernatorial or otherwise, because I think this is such an important and it’s so vastly different than any other campaign that’s been out there that you’re going to see us with podcasts. You’re going to see us with webcasts. You’re going to see us doing things with the Internet that other campaigns would want to do, but maybe haven’t thought about yet. You’re going to see a real shift in how campaigns are going to go from this summer on through and, yeah, look to Todd to kind of take the reins on that.
Tim Ferris: You know I was just wondering (this is Tim Ferris again), we haven’t really addressed the moral or the social responsibility. I mean granted it is to raise money and send kids to school. That is definitely socially responsible and it does cut off a lot of objections, but I’m looking at a February 2006 issue of Financial Planning magazine. We just happened to find this on the way down. I was reading it, and it talks about socially responsible investing. And the return to an average investor in 2004 in gambling and hotel and casino stocks was 49%, on tobacco it was 29%, on alcohol it was 15%. To contrast to the more socially acceptable things, oil and gas got 22% of the average investor. Those are pretty high profits. Those are almost obscene profits, and you know it kind of reminds me of that Chris Rock routine where he’s standing in front of the PTA. He says, “Well, heck. If you want to make a lot of money, why don’t we just sell crack?� How do you address the moral issue here, because the gambling traditionally doesn’t have a great name and doesn’t have great association?
David Hopcraft: My name is Dave Hopcraft and I’m with Ohio Learn & Earn. I address it forthrightly. If you have moral objection to gambling, deeply felt moral conviction, as I think some politicians do when they speak out, bless them. I respect their position. I’d like to know what their answer is to getting Ohio going and getting kids educated, but I still respect that position. Secondly, the issue, the moral horse if you will, left the barn when they passed the State lottery. They’ve got advertisements on radio, on television, in the newspapers, to gamble. Now that’s the State of Ohio doing it, and that to me, that moral horse left the barn.
Ian James: One other thing here (Ian James from Ohio Learn & Earn), one other aspect of this, and I think you’ll see this through this campaign is that you’re probably going to see that moral argument come up from some folks that are running for office this year and start crying holy hell about it, and you need to only ask where they are with the investments of this State, where they are with the investment of retirees money, from the public employees retirement, State teacher retirement, fire funds, police. They’re in that. Some of these politicians that are going to bitch the most about his are the same people who are voting to invest retirees money in gaming, and the reason that they’re doing that is because “it’s a good investment.�
George Nemeth: I think that’s interesting. Is there some provision in this Amendment that is going to tie others, like funds, to be invested in right with gaming? Right?
Ian James: No.
David Hopcraft: No.
George Nemeth: Well I mean because if you’ve got all these other funds that are being invested out of state, you know, how does that benefit? I mean it’s almost like you can take kind of two cuts at it, right? You can take yeah we’re investing in education, but yet we’re also investing in, you know, the investment funds in investing and developing these gamings.
David Hopcraft: Well I think that (this is Dave Hopcraft, Ohio Learn & Earn) we have to be very careful to limit ourselves, especially insofar as retirement funds are concerned, not to so restrict or constrict their field that they don’t have the flexibility to move with demands, and I will say this, that Ohio Learn & Earn is what will be good for the State. Gambling is going on now. You go no farther than your desktop computer to see Ohioans gamble. Set up a credit card line in the Cayman Islands and they’re gambling and they’re playing table games and they’re doing everything. We want to take slots, put where gambling has been, the racetracks, and give people the opportunity stay in Ohio, enjoy their entertainment, leave some money here, and we’re going to take that money and educate kids. That’s the best we can come up with.
Tim Ferris: Well in order to be totally morally consistent, then if you have a moral stance against, you’re going to have to scotch Bingo and scotch the lottery and also perhaps try to control the Internet gambling. So I think we need to bring that up.
David Hopcraft: And I really think that that (this is Dave Hopcraft), I really believe that, and ten years ago, just as recently as a decade ago, people were worried and could be frightened about gambling because they didn’t have an experience with it. Today that doesn’t work as a political tool, in my mind, because people have an experience with it. They see the State of Indiana. They see the State of West Virginia and Michigan, soon to be Pennsylvania. They know that they haven’t sunk to the bottom of the bog, that they’re doing some exciting things, and yes they have gambling. They know that there’s gambling online. They hear advertisements for it and read advertisements for it. So I think that the issue of gambling as the terrible wicked witch of the west, when properly regulated, as this Amendment accounts for, can be certainly a plus to a society and does not need to be a detriment.
Gloria Ferris: Well I have a question for you.
George Nemeth: Last question.
Gloria Ferris: Last question. Do I get the last question?
George Nemeth: Oh you get the first and the last questions.
Gloria Ferris: Hey! All right!
Russell Hughlock: Well aren’t you just special.
Gloria Ferris: Yes, I am.
Tim Ferris: Yes.
Gloria Ferris: My question is, on Brewed Fresh Daily a couple of days ago, I think that George put something about Ohio Learn & Earn. There were people in the comments who have never agreed on a thing who were agreeing that this amendment, that this Ohio Learn & Earn was the slippery slope to hell, and they were together on it. I mean these are people that are you know righties, lefties, whatever, and they are against this, and there are a lot of bloggers. So how are you guys going to treat that kind of, you know, cohesiveness in a group that doesn’t usually get together. You know, I think you’ve talked about it a little bit, but I think you need to be really aware of it.
David Hopcraft: This is Dave Hopcraft from Ohio Learn & Earn. I’ve talked to politicians, elected officials, who have said to me, “Of course I’m going to oppose you, but this is the best thing that can happen.�
Russell Hughlock: You know, you should tell me who those are, or who they are.
Everyone:
George Nemeth: Take names.
David Hopcraft: I can also tell you… I can also tell you…
Russell Hughlock: You want them to support you, you should take names.
David Hopcraft: …that there are people, as I said to Tim at the outset of his question, if the people that have a heartfelt moral objection to this, I respect that. I respect that. I don’t agree with them, but I respect them. I would like them to enter the debate in a positive fashion. I would like them to say, “I’m against gambling, but here’s my idea to develop something like Learn & Earn,� or “Here’s another way we can improve Ohio,� but I don’t accept, “I am morally superior to you, Dave Hopcraft. I am against gambling, and I don’t have to have any ideas about how we get this state going again.� I don’t accept that.
Russell Hughlock: One of my commentators said that the investors, instead of pushing all this money for the Amendment, they should just be philanthropists and give it away.
David Hopcraft: Well that’s a good idea.
Russell Hughlock: That was their thing.
David Hopcraft: I think they should give it to me.
Ian James: Well I’m the first in line.
Gloria Ferris: And I think it’s a good thing. Let’s put it with the economics. Let’s, you know, yes, okay, you morally object to it, but where is your moral objection to the kids in Ohio not having opportunities, and then maybe that’s going to .
George Nemeth: I want to wrap up, and as in wrapping up, I want to thank you gentleman for doing Meet the Bloggers.
Ian James: Thank you for having us.
George Nemeth: And I’d also point out that we’re over an hour. We spent a couple of minutes on the actual moral side of this issue, where I think we spent a lot of time talking about the economics of it, you know, the demographics and stuff like that. So…
David Hopcraft: Yeah.
George Nemeth: Thank you guys for doing Meet the Bloggers.
David Hopcraft: Well thanks very much for having us, and you know you can get to us. We’ve got a Director whose job it is to make sure that you’re getting the answers you want and your fellows out in the field, and when you next need to get together with us, we’re going to make ourselves available.
Ian James: Go to OhioLearnandEarn.com and learn more.
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